Quadriceps: Le squat

quand je fais du squat (que ce soit barre devant ou "traditionnel") je met toujours une cale sous mes talons, je ressens mieux l'effet sur les quadri

apres, c'est pas tout le monde qui le fais, chacun dois faire suivant ses sensations

LAURENT a écrit:

Dans le tout premier ouvrage de musculation que j'avais lu (en 1991), l'auteur estimait qu'un squat réalisait en tenant la barre sous les fessiers donnait les mêmes résultats que le hack squat
Qu'en pensez vous ?????

dans le dernier "flex" de ce mois ci, il y est dis que si on ne possede pas de hack squat, "le hack squat à l'ancienne avec une barre le remplacera avantageusement"
j'essaye ca ce soir! parceque ca manque de machine là ou je suis...

j'ai fusionné mon propre sujet dans un post plus approprié
Kai

Citation :

"le hack squat à l'ancienne avec une barre le remplacera avantageusement"

Peux-tu nous dire ce qu'est le "hack squat à l'ancienne" ?? Je ne connais pas. Une photo ou un dessin serait bienvenu.



HACK SQUAT

comme l'a dis Laurent (je le cite) en tenant la barre à bout de bras sous les fessiers
je n'ai pas reussi à trouver de photo désolé, et je n'ai pas de scanner chez moi, mais en gros je pense que tu vois ce que je veux dire
je ne sais pas si "le hack squat à l'ancienne" est le bon terme pour cet exercice, mais c'est comme ca qu'il est nommé dans le magasine

merci bien pour la réponse!
j'essayerai quand meme cet apres midi histoire de me faire une idée sur l'exercice, mais je pense pas me lancer dans un record de force en l'utilisant

wahou! ce "hack squat" avec la barre est vraiment super! j'ai pas mis tres lourd, mais je me suis bien concentré sur le mouvement et les douleurs etaient énormes

par contre c'est pas le genre d'exo que je ferai pas en 1er, je prefere exploser mes quadri par la presse au début!

je crois que si quelqu'un veut continuer la discussion sur ce sujet, il vaut mieux le continuer dans un post parlant de squat, car sans etre un culto avec 50 ans d'experience, ce "hack squat avec la barre" nommé comme cela par flex me fais plus penser à du squat avec la barre...bon on va pas chipoter de toute facon le mouvement est presque le meme non?

Marc-Antony a écrit:

John a écrit:

Effectivement les courbatures sont dûes aux lésions musculaires provoquées par l'entrainement.

Mais c'est bien là le but d'une séance que d'endommager un muscle.

Personnellement, les courbatures qui suivent un entrainement pendant 2 ou 3 jours sont le signe d'une séance productive.

bein sûr on endommage le muscle, mais le fait d'avoir une bonne alimentation, de faire un bon retour au calme de s'étirer sont tant de chose qui peuvent réduire les courbatures, il faut oublier l'idéée selon laquelle avoir des courbatures est un gage de réussite. Avoir des muscles un peu rigide pdt quelques jours, de légers tiraillement, qlq courbatures, c'est ok, mais il ne faut pas s'entrainer pour les courbatures. J'ai très rarement des courbatures, et je progresse à très grande vitesse.

Bon je poste ce que j'avais mis en anglais, sur mon forum. Je sais c'est en anglais mais tout traduire sera un peu too much.

While some soreness, tenderness and muscle fatigue is both unavoidable and necessary, there is no need to completely annihilate a muscle in order to make it grow. In fact, doing too much so that you are very sore will diminish your results because you will not recover in time for the next workout (and the protective proteins will diminish and, if the break between workouts is too long, you will lose any additional strength gains you would have made had you trained consistently and frequently).

I am not saying that more calcium and more frequent workouts will prevent DOMS. This doesn't have much to do with how much calcium you ingest. Your bones are a huge calcium reservoir anyway.

Here's some information regarding calcium and muscle contraction (may be a bit advanced though):

A muscle's performance during exercise is determined at several levels of organisation - beginning in the brain and ending at the contractile proteins that develop force and produce movement. The central nervous system controls muscle movements, whether they are simple reflexes or learned skills. Within the cell, the muscle contraction caused by actin and myosin interaction is triggered by calcium ion (Ca++) that binds with muscle controlled proteins called troponin and tropomyosin. Troponin and tropomyosin block the binding sites of actin and precent muscle contraction. Removing these proteins via calcium ion allows actin and myosin binding and, hence, muscle contraction.

Muscle contraction begins with the release of calcium ion from the sarcoplasmic reticulum (this is the storage depot for calcium that I mentioned in my orininal post). Calcium causes the cell proteins troponin and tropomyosin to move away from the actin binding site so myosin can trigger muscle contraction. An enzyme called myosin ATPase breaks down ATP, providing the energy for myosin movement and muscle contraction. ATP also supplies the energy to pump calcium ions back into the sacroplasmic reticulum and unbind the actin and myosin (i.e. the muscle relaxes).

Why does calcium cause muscle damage? This is an interesting question and one that I have not found a satisfactory answer for. My opinion is that calcium is very alkaline, while the body like to remain within a very narrow pH range. Introducing large doses of highly alkaline calcium to the muscle will upset the pH balance and may lead to damage (highly alkaline substances are corrosive). This is my opinion though and I will try to find out more information on this.

Calcium is released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum for muscle contraction. However, it is quickly reabsorped from the muscle when the contraction is over, so the pH balance is not upset.

Here are three more pieces of information regarding the 'causes' of DOMS.

1. Connective Tissue Damage Hypothesis: In a 1997 study, Brown, Child, Day and Donnelly reaffirmed an earlier study done by Abraham that demonstrated that the excretion of hydroxyproline, a metabolic product of connective tissue damange was higher in the urine of individuals who experienced muscle soreness than in those who did not. This hypothesis suggests that DOMS or PEMS (Post Exercise Muscle Soreness - occurs immediately after exercise) is due to a disruption in the connective tissue of teh muscle and tendinous attachments.

2. Skeletal Muscle Damange Hypothesis: In a 1986 study, Clarkson et al foud that serum creatine kinase concentration was elevated with concentric, eccentric and isometric contractions, with greater perceived muscle soreness associated with the eccentric contraction. In a 2000 article entitled "Effects of Plyometric Exercise on Muscle Soreness and Plasma Creatine Kinase Levels and its Comparison with Eccentric and Concentric Exercise", the authors found Clarkson's study not only proved to be true, but also concluded thta plyometric activities had incurred perceived muscle soreness than concentric contraction.

3. Spasm Hypothesis: In a 1980 study, Devries proposed that DOMS or PEMS are due to ischemia during exercise, which results in the accumulation of pain-causing substances in the muscle, whihc in turn stimulates reflex muscular spasms that produce more ischemia. This theory was further proven by work done in 2000 by Barlas, Walsh, Baxter, and Allen.

It has also been proposed that muscle soreness or inflammation is caused, in part, by reduced blood flow to the muscle, and an accumulation of byproducts like hydrogen ions or lactic acid.


The best ways to minimise DOMS are to exercise scientifically and listen to your body, as well as make sure that you are getting in the right amount of nutrients at the right times. Since cortisol is catabolic and will continue to break down protein after a workout, it is important to stop cortisol production at the end of your workout. Growth hormone levels also reach very elevated platuaus during a workout and continue to remain high for up to 1 hour after a workout. The secretion of insulin is required to stop cortisol production but, unfortunately, it also lower GH levels. Therefore, in order to get the most benefit out of exercise-induced GH levels, wait 45 minutes to one hour before having your post workout shake. When you DO have this shake, make sure that it contains about 100 grams of fast digesting carbs, 30 grams of protein and 5 grams of glutamine in water. One hour later, have a whole food meal with a 2:1 ratio of carbs to protein.

Busterboy, when you say that you train like a madman, do you train SMART? What's your form like? What your mind-muscle connection like? Do you reach momentary volitional concentric failure and, if so, how often during the workout. Please don't think that I'm questioning you or flaming you, I'm not, but most people who train intensely feel at least some kind of tenderness and fatigue after a workout.

Intense workouts are what build muscle. High intensity training forces the body into a protein synthesis mode. However, a person cannot train at that level all of the time. In order to be able to workout very intensely on a regular basis, it is important to stagger the intensity levels between workouts. The ISSA teaches that trainees should alternate between high, moderate and low intensity workouts each fortnight or so in order to ensure that he/she is training very intensely on a regular basis, whilst allowing for adequat recovery from those very workouts. This is a very good way to minimise DOMS, ensure adequate recovery while continuing to lift regularly and, very importantly, maintain motivation in your lifting.

Je vais faire plaisir à G.G. et je vais te répondre en francais.

1- je trouve ca inutile aussi dans le sens ou tu reprends mots pour mots des articles de recherches déjà publiés...

2- Tout-à-fait en désaccord avec le fait d'attendre 45 minutes avant de prendre son shake post-training !!! De ce côté là tu devrais retourner à tes lectures (celles des années 2000) et constater que la sécrétion d'insuline est primordiale suite à un entrainement intense ! Sans parler des besoins criant d'AA et de BCAA.

3- En fait c'est dans les 15 minutes suivant ta dernière répépition du dernier exercice que tu dois fournir à ton organisme glucose-fructose-maltodextrine-acides aminés.

4- et si tu t'inquiète vraiment de ton taux de cortisol, en plus de la sécrétion d'insuline, ajoute un 800 mg de phosphatidyl Serine et l'affaire est ketchup !

Désolé G.G. je sais que c'est pas le sujet du topic mais je pouvais pas laisser passer ca ! Je recommencerai plus promis !